I appreciate you bringing up this topic, and I have heard all of my life (as someone who grew up in the church of Christ) that this story and Hebrews 12:28 -29 were linked together, as in the author is warning us about worship that is acceptable vs. not acceptable. However, what's really strange to me is that the Greek word here is "serve"...not "worship"...so I am viewing this verse and service a little differently, as well as the phrase "consuming fire" (pyr katanalisko) being found in this exact way in Deut. 4, where Moses warns about serving idols. I have written something on Hebrews 12 concerning this all, here is the link if interested. https://open.substack.com/pub/aimeewilliams/p/for-god-is-a-consuming-fire-hebrews?r=3ox17j&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
thankyou, I love discussing these kinds of things, have a great day!
Hi, Aimee! Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your article and the study that went in to it.
I don't believe that Hebrews 12:28-29 is a reference to Leviticus 10, but I do think the principles presented in both texts have a lot of overlap. I would argue it would be impossible to "serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear" without worshiping Him properly. Your point is well-taken that God being a consuming fire in Heb. 12 is likely not a reference to Lev. 10.
I appreciate the separation between λατρεύω and προσκυνέω, but I think λατρεύω has a clear connection to worship depending on the context. Though λατρεύω is not the word usually translated as "worship," most detailed Greek lexicons I can find include worship, religious service, etc. in its shades of meaning for λατρεύω. For example: "Service/worship of God... the carrying out of religious duties, especially of a cultic nature..." (BDAG, 587); and "to perform religious rites, to worship, to venerate, worship" (Louw-Nida 532). I think the LXX's use of λατρεύω in Joshua 22:27 to describe "burnt offerings" and "sacrifices" demonstrates a possible connection between Nadab and Abihu's actions as priests in Lev. 10 and the word's use in Heb. 12.
Though Heb. 12 is not a reference to Lev. 10, I do think the theological principle of serving God with reverence and fear bind the two Scriptures together (I would argue that our service to God includes our worship of Him).
Thank you for your comment, I enjoy thinking about these kinds of things.
Thank you for your pointing to that verse in joshua. I hadn't looked that up before in the Greek and it's really interesting that latreuo and latreia are right next to each other in the LXX... Not sure if I've come across that before so I look forward to digging into understanding that! I welcome your ideas about that as well.
As for the dictionaries that talk about worship...eh, I just can't put much stock into man-made definitions like that. There's just too much influence by the Catholic Church for me in those, even in one's that are supposed to be good etc.
So I know that we in the Churches of Christ make a big deal about unauthorized things in 'worship' etc. but I ask a deeper question: who **authorized** the translation of the Greek words for "bow down" and "serve" to be translated as such sometimes and translated as worship other times??!
Obviously the translator of each bible, of course, but can we not be fairly certain that the Catholic ideas of latria/adoration, hyperdulia and dulia were not distinctions made by the first century writers or believers???
When I see proskyneo, i.e., bow down, I don't want it translated into a million things!!! no matter who is bowing down to who, I just want to read it like the first century Church did, as "bow down": and we can infer what that means for each situation...I don't need the Catholic doctrine of latria that "anything given to God is worship/adoration", which I believed (more or less) for many years, because that's what is taught by pretty much all Christian groups even the Church of Christ. (Shocking I know!!, it was shocking to me too)
To your point, I do see where our giving praise to God could be somehow equal the fire that nadab and abihu gave God. After all it's about pleasing God right? And singing can be praise, like in Hebrews below. But what my mind is having dissonance about is “giving God something” VS. “being something”…you know?
(Going back to Joshua chapter 22, verse 5 talks about serving God and I think that that's a better picture of what it means to serve God, (walking in his ways and serving him with all the heart and the soul), it's not just the sacrifices.
Hebrews 13 verses 15-16 came to mind about our sacrifices, and the word "continually" stuck out to me in praising...as did doing good and sharing, which are also sacrifices. So, it seems to tie into this idea of our daily conduct and being a living sacrifice as being different than taking an offering to a certain place ( i.e the church building where God lives LOL -joking, because the church building is God's house, right? LOL...do we not teach this too? ) So we give him his praises and then we leave, we are done with “service”…
Basically I'm just trying to have a 1st century understanding of what it means to be a servant of God/follower of Christ. I've pretty much removed the word "worship" from my vocabulary because I don't need it. I've got the words for bow down, serve, praise, pray, be devoted to, honor, etc. I furthermore don't need to classify those things as "acts of worship" (more catholic ideology), because they are what they are, in and of themselves. if those words were good enough for the first Christians, then they're good enough for me! :)
I appreciate you bringing up this topic, and I have heard all of my life (as someone who grew up in the church of Christ) that this story and Hebrews 12:28 -29 were linked together, as in the author is warning us about worship that is acceptable vs. not acceptable. However, what's really strange to me is that the Greek word here is "serve"...not "worship"...so I am viewing this verse and service a little differently, as well as the phrase "consuming fire" (pyr katanalisko) being found in this exact way in Deut. 4, where Moses warns about serving idols. I have written something on Hebrews 12 concerning this all, here is the link if interested. https://open.substack.com/pub/aimeewilliams/p/for-god-is-a-consuming-fire-hebrews?r=3ox17j&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
thankyou, I love discussing these kinds of things, have a great day!
Hi, Aimee! Thanks for your comment. I appreciate your article and the study that went in to it.
I don't believe that Hebrews 12:28-29 is a reference to Leviticus 10, but I do think the principles presented in both texts have a lot of overlap. I would argue it would be impossible to "serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear" without worshiping Him properly. Your point is well-taken that God being a consuming fire in Heb. 12 is likely not a reference to Lev. 10.
I appreciate the separation between λατρεύω and προσκυνέω, but I think λατρεύω has a clear connection to worship depending on the context. Though λατρεύω is not the word usually translated as "worship," most detailed Greek lexicons I can find include worship, religious service, etc. in its shades of meaning for λατρεύω. For example: "Service/worship of God... the carrying out of religious duties, especially of a cultic nature..." (BDAG, 587); and "to perform religious rites, to worship, to venerate, worship" (Louw-Nida 532). I think the LXX's use of λατρεύω in Joshua 22:27 to describe "burnt offerings" and "sacrifices" demonstrates a possible connection between Nadab and Abihu's actions as priests in Lev. 10 and the word's use in Heb. 12.
Though Heb. 12 is not a reference to Lev. 10, I do think the theological principle of serving God with reverence and fear bind the two Scriptures together (I would argue that our service to God includes our worship of Him).
Hi,
Thank you for your comment, I enjoy thinking about these kinds of things.
Thank you for your pointing to that verse in joshua. I hadn't looked that up before in the Greek and it's really interesting that latreuo and latreia are right next to each other in the LXX... Not sure if I've come across that before so I look forward to digging into understanding that! I welcome your ideas about that as well.
As for the dictionaries that talk about worship...eh, I just can't put much stock into man-made definitions like that. There's just too much influence by the Catholic Church for me in those, even in one's that are supposed to be good etc.
So I know that we in the Churches of Christ make a big deal about unauthorized things in 'worship' etc. but I ask a deeper question: who **authorized** the translation of the Greek words for "bow down" and "serve" to be translated as such sometimes and translated as worship other times??!
Obviously the translator of each bible, of course, but can we not be fairly certain that the Catholic ideas of latria/adoration, hyperdulia and dulia were not distinctions made by the first century writers or believers???
When I see proskyneo, i.e., bow down, I don't want it translated into a million things!!! no matter who is bowing down to who, I just want to read it like the first century Church did, as "bow down": and we can infer what that means for each situation...I don't need the Catholic doctrine of latria that "anything given to God is worship/adoration", which I believed (more or less) for many years, because that's what is taught by pretty much all Christian groups even the Church of Christ. (Shocking I know!!, it was shocking to me too)
To your point, I do see where our giving praise to God could be somehow equal the fire that nadab and abihu gave God. After all it's about pleasing God right? And singing can be praise, like in Hebrews below. But what my mind is having dissonance about is “giving God something” VS. “being something”…you know?
(Going back to Joshua chapter 22, verse 5 talks about serving God and I think that that's a better picture of what it means to serve God, (walking in his ways and serving him with all the heart and the soul), it's not just the sacrifices.
Hebrews 13 verses 15-16 came to mind about our sacrifices, and the word "continually" stuck out to me in praising...as did doing good and sharing, which are also sacrifices. So, it seems to tie into this idea of our daily conduct and being a living sacrifice as being different than taking an offering to a certain place ( i.e the church building where God lives LOL -joking, because the church building is God's house, right? LOL...do we not teach this too? ) So we give him his praises and then we leave, we are done with “service”…
Basically I'm just trying to have a 1st century understanding of what it means to be a servant of God/follower of Christ. I've pretty much removed the word "worship" from my vocabulary because I don't need it. I've got the words for bow down, serve, praise, pray, be devoted to, honor, etc. I furthermore don't need to classify those things as "acts of worship" (more catholic ideology), because they are what they are, in and of themselves. if those words were good enough for the first Christians, then they're good enough for me! :)